Socialized Healthcare- Bad medicine
Obama looks to be gearing up for the health care reform fight, leading many to believe that he will push for the legislation this summer. Having allotted $635 billion for health care over the next 10 years, shows he means business, even though it is more likely to cost around $1.2 trillion (Hey look! More deficit). Obama’s plan has eight principles:
• Guaranteeing choice of health plans and physicians;
• Making health coverage affordable;
• Protecting families’ financial health;
• Investing in prevention and wellness;
• Providing portability of coverage;
• Aiming for universality;
• Improving patient safety and quality care; and
• Maintaining long-term fiscal sustainability.
I find the last one to be ironic. We have no money now, yet he allots more than a half a billion dollars to health care reform, even though it will cost us double. The Dems and the media are constantly barraging us with horror stories about how the poor can’t receive medical care, but the fact of the matter is that every single person in the United States has health care. We already have universal health care. You do not need insurance to receive treatment. Don’t believe me? Cut off your finger and walk into an emergency room, see how many people ask for your insurance card prior to treating you. CATO Institute defines socialized medicine as:
Socialized medicine exists to the extent that government controls medical resources and socializes the costs.
So really, because of Medicaid and Medicare, we already have a socialized health care system. Not only would Obama’s plan expand this, he would rack up a deficit and hurt the system in the process. But what exactly is his plan? CATO explains further.
According to his campaign website, “Obama will sign a universal health care plan into law by the end of his first term in office. His plan will provide affordable, quality health care coverage for every American.”1 Obama proposes to accomplish those goals with a number of reforms. He would create a “National Health Insurance Exchange,” where Americans could choose among a number of private insurance plans, or opt for a new health plan run by the federal government and modeled on the Medicare program. Through the Exchange, Obama would have the federal government regulate the content and price of all health insurance plans offered in the United States. Obama would require employers to contribute to the cost of their employees’ health insurance or pay a tax. He would require all parents to obtain health insurance for their children.
Hot Air has a clear response, as always:
We don’t need the kind of reform that puts government more in charge of our health care than it already is, whether those plans come from Republicans or Democrats. The experience of Medicare and the VA should disabuse anyone that an American single-payer system would work better than the one in Canada or in “England,” as Barack Obama referred to it last March.
Socialized medicine isn’t the answer, as it doesn’t solve the problem. More people will be without care should Obama’s plan be implemented. There aren’t enough doctors who would be willing to stay in business and the patient demand would increase exponentially. The real reason why medical care is so expensive is malpractice insurance, not greed. Medical malpractice insurance is costly, and no doctor can do without it, so in order to make any profit, they have to increase the price of their services. Medical malpractice premiums can range from $20,000 per year to over $300,000 per year. That being said, there is a good reason why doctors make so much money. Not only did they go through 12 years of post-secondary education filled with horrible things like organic chemistry and intense calculus, they work long hours in very stressful jobs. They deal with death, disease, and grumpy patients all day every day. Not only this, but there are very few of them and there is a high demand. They provide and essential service that very few can provide, hence, supply and demand says they should get paid the big bucks. Don’t blame the doctors, don’t blame the system. Compared to Canada and Europe, not to mention the rest of the world, our system is doing well.
I leave you with a little video about government run health care. It is fairly accurate and is a lesser known but very common type of horror story about socialized medicine.
Not only did the Founders make the 10th A. to reserve the lion’s share of government power to serve the people to the states, not the Oval Office and Congress, but Jefferson had noted that the Founders had trusted the states, not the federal government with the care of the people. See for yourself.
“Our citizens have wisely formed themselves into one nation as to others and several States as among themselves. To the united nation belong our external and mutual relations; **to each State, severally, the care of our persons** (emphasis added), our property, our reputation and religious freedom.” –Thomas Jefferson: To Rhode Island Assembly, 1801. ME 10:262 http://tinyurl.com/onx4j
But more importantly, Chief Justice Marshall had established the following case precedent, now wrongly ignored, which appropriately limits federal government power to lay taxes.
“Congress is not empowered to tax for those purposes which are within the exclusive province of the States.” –Chief Justice Marshall, GIBBONS V. OGDEN (1824) http://supreme.justia.com/us/22/1/case.html
So not only is misguided Obama’s stimulus package and proposed health care constitutionally unauthorized, but the feds never had the power to lay taxes for these things in the first place.
The bottom line is that the people need to wise up to the ongoing, illegal usurpation of state powers by the Constitution-ignoring feds and do the following. The people need to elect pro-state power people to the state governments in 2010 who will do the following. Pro-state power state leaders need to use their power to amend the constitution to repeal the ill-conceived 16th and 17th Amendments, the 16th A. giving the feds the power to tax citizens directly. The 16th A. has to go because it has made it too easy for the corrupt feds to lay constitutionally unauthorized taxes.
Once the 16th A. has been repealed and the federal income tax eliminated, the states can finance the federal government with higher state taxes for the following reason. The states can use their greater constitutional powers to serve the people to fight a downhill battle with the feds, eliminating constitutionally unauthorized federal taxes, keeping as many tax dollars in a given state as possible. (Did you hear that California?)
And when a state lawmaker shows the voters that they are more interested in protecting the welfare of the federal government more than that of their own state then they can look for a new job.
“Once the 16th A. has been repealed and the federal income tax eliminated, the states can finance the federal government with higher state taxes for the following reason. The states can use their greater constitutional powers to serve the people to fight a downhill battle with the feds, eliminating constitutionally unauthorized federal taxes, keeping as many tax dollars in a given state as possible. (Did you hear that California?)
And when a state lawmaker shows the voters that they are more interested in protecting the welfare of the federal government more than that of their own state then they can look for a new job.”
I say repeal the 16th amendment, and replace the federal income tax with a fair tax, that is a 22% to 25% sales tax. It would create just as much tax revenue and would immediately spur tons of growth. Just think about all the companies that would flood to the US because they wouldn’t have to pay anything in taxes. Prices would stay relatively level because everything you buy has tax built into it. Property tax, income tax, corporate tax, the tax on shipping certain goods etc. With this, maybe we could cut down the insanely large deficit we are accruing.
Federal welfare in itself is unconstitutional. No where in Article 1 Section 8 does Congress have the power to redistribute wealth.
Good to see that you and I are fighting for the same cause.
your blaming the matches instead of the arsonist !!
Profit and medicine, together produce bad healthcare. Somebody, alot of somebodies are going to get stiffed for needed medical care due to the cost.
HMO’s were a bad idea and they collude. The fines paid by Aetna and Humana alone could pay for decent medical care for all. It is a license to steal. to boot, their goal is to treat symptoms and not the cure. There is no money in curing something, but if I can get you to take lipitor, xanax and ambien for the rest of your life. I have a longterm paying customer. Why is it that pharmacy made here is cheaper in Mexico and Canada? Must be the shipping costs!!
Somebody convince me that medicine and profit are good for each other. Good care can be had but it aint covered. Look at the pharmaco-medico arsonists. The answer is in the honesty. lets get some
jim VP med mal claims
“Somebody, alot of somebodies are going to get stiffed for needed medical care due to the cost.”
Medicaid and Medicare take care of people, not to mention other charities and hospital funds. No one is without health care.
“to boot, their goal is to treat symptoms and not the cure.”
Their job is to find the problem while treating the symptom. I find it funny that you and Obama both make this claim without realizing that there is such thing as a “diagnosis”. They cure. They treat. They heal. They save lives.
To find the cure you must first keep the people alive, and many times that means treating the symptom. The cure is found by researchers then implemented by physicians.
“There is no money in curing something”
I find this funny. You can’t charge someone for a cure? Ever pay for a flu shot? Or any other medicine for that matter? Antibiotics?
“but if I can get you to take lipitor, xanax and ambien for the rest of your life.”
Lipitor comes from a cholesterol problem, and we have little cure for that other than trying to eat healthy and exercise, which comes down to the patient. Xanax treats anxiety, which we aren’t 100% sure of the core cause. We could tell them to chillax, but in America that doesn’t work. Ambien is for insomnia, which is caused by a jumble of things from hormone imbalances to stimulant intake to stress to depression/anxiety, so there is no cure.
You can try and say that doctors prescribe these meds to treat and not cure, but cure isn’t a choice. There is no cure as of now. I would rather have my symptoms be lessened or removed rather than suffer from them.
Besides, no one is forcing you to take medication.
“Somebody convince me that medicine and profit are good for each other. ”
Because with no profit, you have no growth, horrible care, and less doctors. Then you end up with a French or Canadian system where it can take days, even months to receive care. Even if you are having chest pains it can take more than a day. Heart attacks don’t wait, and you shouldn’t have to either. Not only that, but profits are incentive for newer and better medication to be made. Many good doctors were attracted to it because of the money. Sure they wanted to help people, but I can assure you they didn’t go through 12 years of schooling, graduate with $300K of debt, and pay $200K a year on malpractice insurance just to make $100K a year. It is unreasonable to say they cannot charge a fair price for their services/products. THESE PEOPLE KEEP YOU ALIVE. And you wish to say they shouldn’t make the money they do?
the fact of the matter is that every single person in the United States has health care. We already have universal health care. You do not need insurance to receive treatment.
Which United States do you live in, because in the United States I live those statements are not true. Why is it commenters always cite as an example some guy who walks into an ER with a severed digit and not the guy who has testicular cancer or the woman with renal failure due to hypertension or the 25-year-old with lymphoma. The big question, as always, is what to do about the uninsured who make too much money to qualify for Medicaid, who are too young for Medicare, and who are too old for S-CHIP. And that adds up to a lot of people.
“Why is it commenters always cite as an example some guy who walks into an ER with a severed digit and not the guy who has testicular cancer or the woman with renal failure due to hypertension or the 25-year-old with lymphoma”
Fine. Put something radioactive in your pants, grow a tumor, then walk into an ER. You will receive treatment. Note how in the hippocratic oath, doctors HAVE TO TREAT, regardless of the nature of the ailment. Cancer, broken bones, the sniffles, etc, we have universal healthcare. Note how those who cannot afford insurance can receive medicaid or medicare, thus receiving treatment without having to put hospitals in debt.
The easy answer would be to have them pay for a good deal of their care, then pick up the tab when they can no longer afford to. Note how it was their choice to not have insurance, which if someone wants to roll the dice with their health, that is their perogative. They can still receive care, and when they no longer can afford to pay for it out of pocket, medicaid picks up the tab.
Every single person in America has healthcare. Of course, the libs would love for you to believe differently, but this isn’t the case.
Judging from your blog, you are one of those very same liberals.
Note how in the hippocratic oath, doctors HAVE TO TREAT….
For the record, the Hippocratic oath is not a legally binding document, it’s just a nice touch at med school graduations.
Note how in most states, it is illegal for doctors to turn away patients. It is always illegal for patients to be turned away in an emergency.
They get this little thing called a medical license, which is very much so a legally binding document. Should they “choose” not to treat a patient who is need of it, they could lose their license.
Note how in most states, it is illegal for doctors to turn away patients.
Do you have a source or link for this, because I’d really like to know if my state is one of those states. I’d like to find out if my uninsured cousin with really bad back pain can look up an orthopedist in the Yellow Pages, make an appointment, meet with the doctor, declare Hey, the law says you have to treat me, and actually get treated.
Here’s my email address so you can send me the link: msauthoritiva@aol.com. Thanks!
Dear Grace,
http://jfs.ohio.gov/Ohp/
Your cousin can find lots of info there (if he/she lives in Ohio). What state does your cousin live in?
http://www.ohiofreeclinics.org/
Another one if he/she is in Ohio.
I would suggest that your cousin just go see a physician first, as there are countless simple causes and simpler solutions for back pain. Should your cousin go to one of the free clinics, the doctor can refer you to a specialist who does pro bono work or can refer him/her to a program that can get his/her treatment paid for.
Note how in most states, it is illegal for doctors to turn away patients.
Thank you for the links. However, you claimed that it is illegal for doctors to turn away patients for non-emergency treatment. That’s very different than advising someone to go to a free clinic or seeking pro bono treatment. While I am not denigrating free clinics or the generosity of those doctors who perform pro bono, they do not constitute universal health care coverage or legally mandated medical treatment.
Give me the state and I will give you the specific law.
More sites?
http://law.freeadvice.com/malpractice_law/hospital_malpractice/hospital-patients.htm
Under the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act, no person can be turned away from care by a public hospital ER. It doesn’t matter whether they have insurance or not nor does it matter whether they make $1 million a year or $0 a year.
Every single American has healthcare.
every single american has healthcare.
yeah, but its really bad health care. i have to ask if you have any idea what you’re talking about when you effuse on about the so called evils of socialized medicine. i am an american who had to choose between death and my entire family’s financial ruin. no one should ever have to face such circumstances in a country which grants its citizens so many rights. the fact is this - i cannot be privately insured as they have the right to turn me down, and believe me they all did. when i went on medicaid as a disabled person only to discover that it would not cover the specific specialists i needed or 90% of my medication because most of the medications that ease the symptoms of my incurable condition were initially developed and approved to treat other illness - if you don’t have the original disease or condition for which a drug is approved, too bad because if you want it you pay 100% out of pocket.
i refused to make that grim decision and decided to sell everything: house, car, furniture, electronics, you name it. we used the money to move to europe for better healthcare - yes, that’s right i said europe for better medical care. if you really want to know what the differences are, just ask and i’ll tell you what happened. otherwise, enjoy your debate.
i am so happy to see people with opposing views discussing this tremendously important topic- keep it up!
“i am an american who had to choose between death and my entire family’s financial ruin. no one should ever have to face such circumstances in a country which grants its citizens so many rights.”
And you didn’t have to. Medicaid, Medicare, charities, free clinics, and doctors who do pro bono work could have covered all of your costs. Of course, if you were making six figures and didn’t have insurance, you’d be out some big bucks, but then I have to ask why you didn’t have insurance.
“if you don’t have the original disease or condition for which a drug is approved, too bad because if you want it you pay 100% out of pocket.”
I never realized that our healthcare system has to be socialized to change this. Hint my sarcasm.
“yes, that’s right i said europe for better medical care.”
Many Americans, and Europeans, disagree with you. Note how almost everyone would have to pay more for their healthcare in Europe, and that they wouldn’t receive as quick and efficient of care.
I should note before I ask you your story that you are most likely an exception to the rule. As much as we would like to have perfect care for everyone at every time at no cost, this is unfeasible. Under the current plan, the responsible and healthy will be subsidizing the premiums of the unhealthy and irresponsible. Many Americans will find that they won’t be able to keep their private insurer. If you don’t have health insurance, guess what? YOU GET SLAPPED WITH A TAX. This tax has no limitations on scope nor size. Premium rates will skyrocket. New Jersey anyone? It will cost over a trillion dollars. Seeing as how Obama has yet to cut spending, I’m guessing he will find a tax of sorts to pay for the mess. Wait lists for doctors will be longer than the Nile. Emergency care goes out the window because it takes days to see patients. Doctors move or retire, perpetuating the wait lists.
Yet everything can be solved if we reform how medical malpractice works.
But please, lest I take up too much space rambling, what is your story.
good call - i am the exception to the rule, but perhaps not in the way you may imagine.
my story is longer than most people my age. in the spirit of brevity, i’ll try to keep it to the main points which apply to this discussion - the challenge there you see, is that i’ve been chronically and somewhat mysteriously ill since the day i was born. maybe you can see where i’m going with this - i have spent my entire life in doctors’ offices, hospitals, clinics both free and not.
as i was growing up, my parents tried their best - they owned and operated a small business and we were all insured. but search as they might, no doctor could help me - that is not to say that they wouldn’t diagnose me with this syndrome or that, write prescriptions, take their money, and tell me to come back when the medicine doesn’t help. did i say “when”? no, i’m sure they said “if” but that’s not what they meant. my parents spent thousands of dollars every year on one treatment or another only to find their child still sick.
as i got older, my illness got gradually worse. nobody even knew how to describe what was wrong with me and the list of my symptoms just kept growing.
by age 24, i had to use a wheelchair to leave my house and a tackle box to organize my medications. the following year, quite unexpectedly i died on a gurney in the same hospital in which i was born. died - the real deal - i stopped breathing, my heart stopped, i experienced what they call multiple organ failure,(you know liver,kidneys,all that stuff). the doctors were capable, determined, and quick with the defibrulator - obviously, they saved me.
at that time i was covered under my husband’s work issued insurance. he took over my job in the family business. when the family business had to close, bye-buy insurance. with a medical history like mine, no private insurance company would cover me - not for any amount.
when i was finally granted disability,(which took four long years and a lawyer),i qualified for medicaid. medicaid as i stated before, was little help with prescription costs because the medications being used to control my symptoms were developed or approved for other illnesses. medicaid also would not cover the one specialist who seemed to understand what others didn’t - his office was an eight hour drive from my home and his fee is $300/hour.
my medical costs were more than we made every month because medicaid wouldn’t help unless i only went to one of their doctors, and only took the medications they thought i should have.
do you see now what i mean when i refer to my decision between death and bankruptcy?
i got better care right away here in holland than i ever did in america at fraction of the cost, even without insurance. with insurance that costs less than $500/month, my whole family is covered with full medical, dental, specialist, and prescriptions - no copay, no age or health restrictions. here, it is illegal for an insurance company to turn you down for any reason.
i also don’t have to wait to be seen by a doctor - my doctor will come to my house any time, day or night, with medications and injections, and he does this for no charge.
now of course this kind of system does require more funding from tax dollars - for example, the tax that we pay in holland is 30% on all goods and services.
if you are looking to see how Obama is planning to cut spending and redirect funds, check your newspaper or favorite news site’s political headlines for today. i just read an article of some interest on the topic, but it seems that there are indeed many issues to be addressed.
oh, and by the way, every european i’ve spoken to about healthcare has been horrified by how expensive and inefficient the american health care system is. you don’t strike me as a michael moore fan, but i have to ask if you’ve seen “sicko”
“did i say “when”? no, i’m sure they said “if” but that’s not what they meant.”
I think that is overly accusatory. I doubt doctors just want your money. Money is only one of the benefits of their job, but a large majority of them genuinely want to help people.
“the doctors were capable, determined, and quick with the defibrulator - obviously, they saved me.”
First off, wow. Secondly, thank God because this would have been the start of the long awaited zombie pandemic.
“with insurance that costs less than $500/month, my whole family is covered with full medical, dental, specialist, and prescriptions - no copay, no age or health restrictions.”
But you pay more than your fair share in taxes. So really, the healthy there subsidized your premium so you could receive insurance.
“if you are looking to see how Obama is planning to cut spending and redirect funds, check your newspaper or favorite news site’s political headlines for today.”
From the headlines: To get there, he said he will identify about $300 billion in budget savings “in the days to come” on top of an already outlined $300 billion. However, Obama also said that that won’t be enough. He proposes the extra money come in part from reducing charitable deductions for the wealthiest Americans - an idea that has little backing on Capitol Hill.
So $600 billion in cuts, $600 billion in taxes. Also, people will be paying higher premiums to make up for the cost of insuring everyone. I think I need to pull out the graph again:
We have no money.
“oh, and by the way, every european i’ve spoken to about healthcare has been horrified by how expensive and inefficient the american health care system is.”
I would expect no less from Europeans who live in Europe. I have heard countless horror stories. Like my friend Sarah who went to Paris, broke her leg on some stairs, and went to the hospital. After an 8 hour wait in a 85 degree ER, she was taken into a room with 20-30 year old equipment (she said it was from the 1940s, but anyone who has seen old medical equipment knows what that means). They didn’t reset her leg, and put it in a PLASTER cast. She came home, doctors had to rebreak and reset her leg, all because the French are stupid. Of course, there are always exceptions to rules and yours might be an exception. I love the medical system here in the States. I have knee problems, have had stitches numerous times in recent years, have messed up fingers and wrists by wrestling and skiing, and have been sick who knows how many times. I was treated efficiently every time.
So really, we are going to have to speak not on personal terms, but on broad utilitarian terms. I think socialized healthcare is inefficient, too costly, and unnecessary. While a few may benefit, it will hurt the masses more than help.
“but i have to ask if you’ve seen “sicko””
Lol, yes I have seen sicko. Might I add that Michael Moore is borderline retarded, fat, stupid, and fat. Never trust documentaries like that of any kind, regardless of political affiliation. Obsession, Expelled, Sicko, Farenheit 9/11, ect all are just propaganda. They straw man the crap out of people then build themselves up. Might I add that Moore ignores that people pay more for healthcare in Europe because they pay it in taxes. Of course, Moore never owns up to his dishonesty. I hope “sicko” doesn’t shape your political views because Michael Moore is a very, very, very stupid man-baby.
your opinion is clear, but a worthwhile debate addresses the facts and life experience, not assumptions, speculation, mud-slinging, and character assassination through inflamatory rhetoric, (after all, isn’t that why you dislike michael moore? at least he backs up his rhetoric with facts).
you say that you wish to discuss the issues in broad utilitarian terms and not personal ones. well first off, when you stop listening to the personal issues, you lose your humanity - when this occurs within any government institution, human rights take a backseat to capitalist greed.
second, you are the one straying into personal territory. for instance, your friend that broke her leg - i’m sure that was very painful, but that was an unfortunate situation because she did not know how the medical system works in the country she was visiting - the procedures for hospital treatment in europe are different. i don’t blame her for not knowing the best way to handle such an emergency, but you’re in no position to blame the entire population of france. now, THAT is accusatory.
based on one person’s experience, not even your own, you call the french stupid. do you know anyone from france? have you ever been there? do you realize that making statements like that and using phrases like “…moore is a very, very, very stupid man-baby”, makes you sound stupid, which i don’t think you are.
by the way, what happened with your friend in france is NOT a horror story. in fact, i see now that you wouldn’t know a horror story if it popped up on your computer screen.
a couple of debating tips-
by acknowledging someone else points,(naturally you don’t have to agree, but showing that you understand your opponent’s point, not only shows respect but also shows that you do in fact understand the point being made - this only strengthens your credibility), instead of dissecting their entire statement, pulling quotes out of their original context, and generally missing the point, you can keep a debate both stimulating and respectful.
and don’t forget that there is no substitute for life experience. don’t misunderstand me, it is great that you don’t have a story like mine,(although far too many americans do), but don’t let your political opinions keep you from learning a thing or two from those who have been where you haven’t. my grandfather,(a political science professor emeritus at a major university for more than 40 years), taught me that. he also taught me that debating can be great fun for everyone involved as long as we observe common, or perhaps in your world they are uncommon),courtesies. the idea is to learn from each other’s experiences, not to practice right-fighting.
with that in mind, i hope you respond with something both factual and a touch more human. you seem too young to be so heartless - or are you just a misunderstood misanthrope? i honestly can’t tell.
“(after all, isn’t that why you dislike michael moore? at least he backs up his rhetoric with facts).”
I dislike michael moore because he doesn’t back up his statements with facts nor does he use any kind of legitimate logic.
“when you stop listening to the personal issues, you lose your humanity ”
No, you simply remove all emotional appeal from the debate. Sure, for one person it might have been better, but if it makes it far worse for ten more people, that is a net negative impact. I would rather have one person suffer than ten. Sorry if that sounds “inhumane” but to say you’d rather have more people suffering is the other choice.
“human rights take a backseat to capitalist greed.”
Oh yes, those dirty capitalist. I forgot that it was the socialists and communists that save so many lives and give so much to charity. Oh wait, no, Republicans give 30% more on average, even though they make 7% less.
“or instance, your friend that broke her leg - i’m sure that was very painful, but that was an unfortunate situation because she did not know how the medical system works in the country she was visiting - the procedures for hospital treatment in europe are different. i don’t blame her for not knowing the best way to handle such an emergency, but you’re in no position to blame the entire population of france. now, THAT is accusatory.”
This was part of my response when discussing why personal stories are of no use. We can throw stories back and forth all we want but of course there will be horror stories in every system. The scope is far too narrow to try and determine the efficiency of the system. Like you said, to blame the AMERICAN system for one person’s mishap is accusatory. Hence, broaden the scope by discussing the facts, not anecdotes that have unhappy endings.
“by the way, what happened with your friend in france is NOT a horror story.”
That is one that is personal. She could have no walked on that leg again had she not come back in time. That is a horror story to me. Weren’t you the one saying I lost my humanity? Apparently a 20 year old becoming handicapped isn’t grim enough for you to consider it a horror story. Or you could watch the video which depicts another horror story.
““…moore is a very, very, very stupid man-baby”, makes you sound stupid, which i don’t think you are”
Thanks for not thinking I am stupid but I do believe Moore to be quite unintelligent in the political sense. At the very least he is illogical and ignorant.
“you can keep a debate both stimulating and respectful.”
I think it is perfectly respectful to dissect someone’s argument and show how it is wrong/fallacious. And no offense, but if you think Moore backs up his rhetoric with facts, I think I’ll stay away from your debating tips. In all honesty, Moore has no idea what he is talking about.
“the idea is to learn from each other’s experiences, not to practice right-fighting.”
It is one thing to learn from others’ experiences, but in the political world, personal experience cannot be used to shape policy, as the policy effects more than just that individual. I cannot hold your experience to be the norm nor can I use your experience when determining a policy. What needs to happen is determine how many people have a story like yours, then decide whether it is for the nation’s benefit to implement a socialist policy. In this case, it definitely is not. We have no money, it would come at a severe cost to our system, it will slow care and families will have to pay more on average.
I’m not heartless, and I truly am glad your story had a happy ending. I wish more individuals who are in similar situations as you were are able to find a solution. But when it comes to policy, I am sorry, no personal experience allowed.
wow - there is so much wrong with this last one, i’m not sure where to start. honestly, i find your particular brand of “debating” to be combative, tedious, disrespectful, and worst of all uninformative. it’s actually quite self-serving and masturbatory.
to try to shed some light on your healthcare debate, i have been forthcoming with my story. all you have contributed in response are your personal opinions stated as if they were actual facts, and regurgitated right wing propaganda that i’ve already heard a thousand times from people far less intelligent than yourself. that’s disappointing.
the truth is that your inexperience with serious medical problems has left you sheltered, naive, and without compassion for those who truly suffer. you really don’t get it, and you’re in over your head, (at least with the U.S. healthcare subject and you don’t seem to understand dutch economics in the slightest). just one example of why i think you come across as heartless - you are the first person to hear my story who has not bothered to ask a single question regarding exactly how i came to the point of dying, what it was like, or how long it will be before i have to do it again.
it is so easy to deny the importance of personal experience when you don’t have any. and please don’t give me that crap about how truly happy you are that my story has a happy ending.
i am permanently disabled at least in part because the inept physicians who treated me when i was a child bombarded my system with antibiotics,(the quick fix) instead of looking for the underlying cause - this irresponsible treatment essentially destroyed my own natural immune system. the root cause of all of my health problems wasn’t discovered until 30 years later.
i have every right to be accusatory toward those who have not done their jobs well. incidentally, although i may blame a few bad doctors, i have never sued for malpractice, so don’t point your finger at me for raising your premiums.
what all this boils down to is that i will suffer excruciating pain every day for the rest of my life, which i have been assured will be short. really short. my husband, (the man who has been my one true love and has stood by me through everything since we were 14), and of course my incredible son, (the child i always wanted but was told i would not be able to have), will be forced to watch me fade and die. does that ending sound happy to you?
“You are young. Life has been kind to you. You will learn.” -S.Todd
better that you should learn what you can from others like me than learn it yourself, the hard way. do you participate in any kind of charity or community service? are you involved with a church, or even a gov’t group like HUD homes? last question, just out of curiosity, what did you think of “the fountainhead”?
“all you have contributed in response are your personal opinions stated as if they were actual facts, and regurgitated right wing propaganda that i’ve already heard a thousand times from people far less intelligent than yourself. that’s disappointing.”
Examples?
“the truth is that your inexperience with serious medical problems has left you sheltered, naive, and without compassion for those who truly suffer.”
Who says I haven’t had any serious problems? And I do feel compassion for those who suffer, but I cannot harm the 99% to help the 1%. You are promoting a system that helps a few, and harms many. I glad it worked out for you, I truly am, but the fact of the matter is that it will do more harm than good.
“at least with the U.S. healthcare subject and you don’t seem to understand dutch economics in the slightest”
I didn’t realize we were talking about Dutch economics, here I thought we were talking about healthcare.
“you are the first person to hear my story who has not bothered to ask a single question regarding exactly how i came to the point of dying, what it was like, or how long it will be before i have to do it again.”
Maybe I thought it was a personal matter and you would share as much as you wanted? I do not press people for answers concerning troubling times in their lives. The same way I wouldn’t want someone to pressure me to talk about my ailments, I didn’t think you would want to either. Share as much as you like. I want to hear your story, and I said so. Share as much as you are comfortable with.
“it is so easy to deny the importance of personal experience when you don’t have any.”
Who said I don’t have an experience?
“and please don’t give me that crap about how truly happy you are that my story has a happy ending.”
It’s not crap but if it will make you feel better for me not to tell you then so be it.
“i have every right to be accusatory toward those who have not done their jobs well. ”
Of course you do, they severely harmed your quality of life.
Lol, I would never accuse you of doing so because that would be justified. It is when someone doesn’t like how their nose job turned out then sues or when they are simply looking for some quick cash that bothers me.
“(the man who has been my one true love and has stood by me through everything since we were 14),”
That is my favorite part of the story so far. He is a good man.
“does that ending sound happy to you?”
No, but I am glad you found treatment in Europe. I didn’t know this ending before. The real question would be if you are happy or if you are ready to die. I have had my fair share of medical problems in my short 19 years on this Earth, trust me. From physical to mental, I have had my fair share of pain and suffering, and it continues to this day. What enabled me to continue wasn’t a trip to Europe but rather coming to Christ. Not only was I healed spiritually, but my life instantly became awesome. For someone who was on the verge of death, I too know the feeling to be far from it. Granted, I am no longer near, but I remember the feeling and will never forget.
Still, with the debate on hand, that of Obamacare versus our private system, I still cannot accept your story as justification for Obamacare. If your story were extremely common, which I know it is not, then it could easily be used as an example. However, Obamacare and socialized medicine will do more harm than good. It is not wrong or heartless for me to say that I would rather have 5 people suffering than 100. There will only be suffering, the only thing we can do is try to limit it.
oh, and just so as to avoid wasting any more of either our time discussing the infamous michael moore, let me ease your worries - he doesn’t have any more or less influence on my political opinions than you do. he is merely a mouthpiece; not a politician,a lawmaker, a doctor, a leader, or even a teacher. he is a FILMMAKER - that’s it. i asked if you had seen “sicko”, but i haven’t cited it or used its content as viable material for this or any other discussion because it is a MOVIE. i was just curious, really.
I’m glad you aren’t drinking moore’s kool aid. It is a relief.
I’ve seen a number of his films and read parts of “stupid white men”. I never paid for any of it though, out of respect of moore’s hatred of capitalism.
Okay, so this is probably the most absurd article you’ve posted. There’s no sense in getting into it over the Internet as it would waste my life (though I have found others’ responses amusing to read). We must discuss this soon.